US/EST: 20 Oct 2019 13:31

Player Dispute - YNE

2 posts, 2 voices

Harp221122 1509 points
6177 posts
status: Grand Master
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3 years ago

Amount Owed: $711.30 MU

This post is from 2+2:

Will bullet post on top here but felt I should list the more in depth timeframe for future reference and to the length we tried to go to allow the horse to set his own repayment plan. Sorry for the TLDR. In the end I think this all could have been avoided and we have been very patient with the horse to date and had any attempts been made to communicate and adjust payment schedule, make smaller payments etc we would have altered the terms he set. Obviously we are still willing to do so, but he has not given any indication other than “i will pay this”

I completely understand that this is a makeup payment and should be noted that no money was stolen, but after going through this process, regardless of the amount owed, future backers should be aware of the complete lack of communication this horse has, along with the value of his word.

-stake began in February
-April 11 told he had new job, couldn’t play during week, just Thursday – Saturday until job settled in. Was at $826 in mu
-April 17th agreed to continue stake with playing limitations above
-April 18th audit was requested from all horses
-April 25th had not received audit, messaged again
-April 26th contacted again on skype/email as also missed sending screenshot of cashier two weeks in row (in agreement)
-April 27th he contacted us said didn’t have RSA with him
-April 29th sent audit (checked out fine). Was told that communication needed to improve
-May 10th 2 more weeks of screenshots missed and a weekend passed with no play/communication.
-told again didn’t have RSA token with him
-stated that if he didn’t things sorted out he would buy out and pay the makeup
-May 14th Played scoop game outside stake without permission
-May 15th told he would be putting in a decent session on May 20-22nd
-May 20th Messaged too tired to play
-May 21st Messaged that 21st and 22nd were final two days of Hockey World Championships and he felt he needed to take the days off. Again said if he didn’t get in enough games in the month he would pay the makeup
-May 22 I messaged him that probably in both our best interests to address the makeup and move on.. Requested remaining funds back and a plan to address makeup of $1161.30
-May 25th received response that he would return funds when he was back home.
-May 29 no funds received, I sent another message
-May 31 funds received 9 days after requested. Asked me what timeframe I wanted makeup paid
-June 1 responded that I didn’t know timeframe because didn’t know his ability to pay and asked him what he thought he could do
-June 12 Email sent to him as no response from June 1
-June 15 Responded that he needed 6 weeks to make payments (Aug 1) to which I agreed
-July 21-26 91 games ($822 worht of buyins played on stars)
-July 22 Email sent with regards to games being played but no makeup payment being made. Reminder that he agreed to pay by Aug 1
-July 28th 2nd email sent after games played above and learning that some action was sold
-July 31 he messaged on skype, having not paid any money, asking for 2 more weeks, saying he got paid on Aug 15.
-Aug 2 I responded (was on holidays) that he could have until Aug 16th given that no more games were to be played and that if he missed his 2nd deadline I would be posting on 2+2, CMU etc
-Aug 2 He agreed and sent $450 to “show he was serious” about paying
-Aug 16 no payment, no messages
-Aug 17 Email and skype sent inquiring about payment (no response)
-Aug 20 $150 worth of buyins played on stars
-Aug 23 contacted me after I had a horse friend call him. Claimed contacted partner on Aug 15 (as I have left stable) to say he couldn’t meet his 2nd picked deadline. Spoker with partner yesterday about this post and never mentioned contact but trying to verify.

We started staking Daddyca$h in February and things started out ok. We provided a few coaching sessions as well.

In early April, he contacted me saying that he got a job opportunity and would not be able to play as much, but would be able to play Thursday – Saturday and once he got going on the job probably could play more during the week.

At this point we had about $826 in mu so we didn’t want to end the stake, we did discuss time commitment etc and again he told me that he would be able to play weekends and be focused and once he got things going on the job, could most likely play more. This is where things started to go down hill.

On April 18th, (day after we confirmed continuing the stake) I requested from all my horses player audits for the last month of games. By April 25th, I still had not received and sent a follow up message on skype. On April 26th I again contacted him on skype and also via email for him to contact me on skype. Finally on Apr 27th he contacted me and sent the audit on Apr 29th as he said he didn’t have his RSA with him. The audit checked out. During this time he also missed sending me his screenshot of his cashier screen two weeks in a row (this is part of all our agreements that they be sent each Monday).

I chalked both of these issues up to having just started a new job, but expressed to him some disappointment in having to chase him around so soon after agreeing to move forward and that communication was going to be key to making this work. I made it clear that our expectation was not to need to communicate every day, but better communication needed to occur when emails or skype messages were sent.

By May 10th, another two screenshots had been missed and a weekend passed with no play and no comments in the rail as to why (agreement has that horse will post if not playing for more than 2 days in a row with expected return time). Given our understanding of when he could and couldn’t play, I didn’t expect posts for not playing during the week, but if he was missing an entire weekend where he had previously said he could play, it should have been communicated.

Was told again that he didn’t have his RSA to send screenshot and that he has been working. At this point he said that if he didn’t get things sorted out soon he would buy himself out so we wouldn’t lose any money on him.

I again stressed the need or better communication and the understanding that games wouldn’t be played during the week, but the bare minimum of communication was needed from him moving forward.

After all this talk about communication and chasing for information/updates, a few days later I logged on to skype and saw a message asking to play a scoop event that wasn’t in the bankroll guidelines, with the stake taking 33%. Then a subsequent message 3 hours later saying “since I haven’t heard from you, will play the event and if itm will add 33% of winnings”

Our horses are not allowed to play games outside the stake without permission. Despite the communication issues to date, had I been online, I probably would have allowed him to play the game, but that is beside the point imo. Making the decision to play the game regardless because I wasn’t online, especially given my repeated messages about better communication, is a breach of the agreement. To top it off, minimal other games were played alongside that game despite him being online with time to play.

Rather than just say, sorry, wont happen again, the response I got was trying to mitigate why it was played. Another message by me talking about communication and telling him if he didn’t think he could handle the job and the stake that we should address the makeup and part ways amicably. At this point I was told that he would play a decent amount next weekend (May 20-22)

Message May 20th that was too tired to play, message May 21st that it was semifinal day at Hockey World championships and final o May 22nd so he felt he needed these days off. Again said that if he didn’t get enough games in during the month he would pay the makeup when he had funds.

At this point it was clear that even the minimal amount of days he said he could play were being played. I asked him to return the balance and provide me with a plan to address the outstanding makeup, which at this point was $1161.30. This was May 22nd

On May 25th I received a response that he would return the funds when he was back home. By May 29th still had not received funds and sent another message. On May 31st over a week after asking for funds to be returned, I received them along with a message saying he has so many things every day that he cant communicate “all the time”. He asked me for a reasonable timeframe to repay the makeup. I responded on June 1, that it is hard for me to set a timeframe when I have no idea his ability to make payments and to tell me what he thinks he can do, knowing that I want to clear it up asap
After that message on June 1, I got zero response and sent another message via email on June 12th. On June 15th he finally responded and asked for a 6 week time frame to pay all makeup and we agreed that all would be paid by August 1st.

During this 6 week period, I noticed that some games were being played on stars, one or two here and there until July 21st when there was a noticeable increase and between July 21st to 26th, he played 91 games, just over $822 worth of buyins. Obviously, given we had received $0 in payments in that timeframe, this was pretty disappointing. I also found out that he had sold some action in this timeframe as well through skype. On July 22nd after first seeing games played on the 21st, I emailed him and asked him why he had made no makeup payments before putting money on the tables again and also reminded him that he agreed to have his makeup paid off by August 1st. Obviously I received zero response.

I sent a further email on July 28th after seeing more games played noted above again asking for an update. On July 31st I received a message on skype asking for an additional 2 weeks to pay back the makeup as he would receive his paycheck on August 15th. I was on holidays and couldn’t respond until the 2nd of august. I voiced my displeasure over him not making any attempt to send even small payments in 6 weeks, selling action, playing, zero communication, etc. I told him that he had until August 16th or I would be posting on the staking sites and that my expectation would be that he wouldn’t be playing or selling action during that time. He responded that he understood our position and that he would make it right. He sent $450 and said he appreciated the two extra weeks, going as far as saying he would even pay back the coaching sessions when he had things sorted out.

So two additional weeks have passed with zero communication or payments. On August 17th (last Wednesday) I sent him a skype and email to him that have gone unanswered and he put in a session at the tables on August 20th for $150.

After asking another horse that knew him to call him, he messaged me on skype today and claimed he sent a message to staking partner on August 15th (as I have left the stable but was handling this). I have not confirmed with partner yet that happened but was speaking with him yesterday and apprised him that I was going to make this post and he never told me that Daddyca$h contacted him. I have sent message to partner to verify this. So even giving him the benefit of the doubt that he did, rather than respond to my skype or emails on August 17th that he contacted partner, he continued to do what he always did and ignored them.

In message he asked me why I was being a pain in the ass, despite him setting the payment terms, missing them, asking for two more weeks, missing again and playing poker in between. At this time, I am handing things over to partners still in the stable and they can continue to follow up and I will update post when issue resolved.

post modified 3 years ago

Schabernack 1340 points
10273 posts
status: Moderator
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8 months ago

Issue was resvolved, YNE paid back in 2017 already, Harp just forgot to add it here aswell. Details here

User unrestricted for a second chance.