US/EST: 25 Sep 2018 14:33

veeRob - Red Rock Las Vegas - Heartland Poker Tour - Main Event

Tournament information
Red Rock Las Vegas
Registered As: Rob Perelman
Buyin $1,100 ($USD)
Approx first prize: $150,000
Tournament ID:
Start Date: 16 Jan 2011 13:00 (EST)
16 Jan 2011 10:00 (US/Pacific) Preview
finished - 7 years ago
Share details
$2.75 per share (0.20%)
price/value 125%
Shares Available? 60 (12.0%)
Shares sold 90 (18.0%)
Player share 70%
Potential winnings per $2.75 share $300
Player payment options ChipMeUp $
Share Graph Event 90196
Event Results
Number of Players: 553
Finishing Position: 1
Cash Winnings: $156,755
Winnings per share: $314.06 (inc. stakeback) Return on Investment: 11320.36% (inc. stakeback)
Results Entered: 18 Jan 2011 09:37
Description
I'm very excited to be playing the Heartland Poker Tour Main Event again in 2011. I played in 2010, and the tournament sold out with 443 runners. Last year I ran AK into KK to get 140th place. If the cards agree with me, I see myself going very deep in my first big tournament of 2011. I'm keeping the price/value ratio very low at 125% like my 2010 WSOP ME. I hope you see this as very good value, as I am just trying to share the sweat with my friends and fans.

Too many shares to show pie chart.



Buyer Number of stakes Percentage Status Action
open60 (0.2% each)12.0%open
 6012.0%unsoldEvent Complete
johna8 [profile]112.2%sold via CMU$ 
Micon [profile]153.0%paid out 
nbajam [profile]132.6%paid out 
onafolddraw [profile]10.2%paid out 
UKnB1mE [profile]20.4%sold via CMU$ 
wizzadd [profile]20.4%paid out 
44/104 sold 
Player share - veeRob [profile]70%Unavailable 

Comments

veeRob (7 years ago - 16 Jan 2011 10:33 UTC)

First day ended quite well. Finished with 199,900 chips, which is above average. We restart at 12pm.

If you followed my Twitter, you’ll see I had a slow day until the end. Lost a few flips at the start, but then shoved my stack in many times until I was called and won a race. Then I had AQ>T7, and then AK>AT. Very pleased with how everything went.

Make sure to follow me tomorrow at http://twitter.com/veeRob — I like our chances, guys!


johna8 (7 years ago - 16 Jan 2011 19:35 UTC)

Good stuff, can you update how many entrants and how many are left?


onafolddraw (7 years ago - 16 Jan 2011 23:20 UTC)

Recent tweets from @[url=http://twitter.com/veeRob]veeRob[/url]:
KK > TT for a huge pot to get us in the money. Woohoo. 580k-ish. @HPTPokerTour #Hpt

and (the meat and potatoes)

590k at break. 49 players left guaranteed $1,380. @hptpokertour #hpt


onafolddraw (7 years ago - 16 Jan 2011 23:20 UTC)

er, http://twitter.com/veeRob


johna8 (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 03:06 UTC)

Looking good, saw some tweets about 18 players left with a good stack. Make FT and bring in #1 ;)


johna8 (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 09:27 UTC)

5 handed 2nd in chips having a blast @hptpokertour
Nice mate, hope you come 1st and good start to 2011.


Micon (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 13:21 UTC)

shipped it / wow what a player


veeRob (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 14:29 UTC)

Won the whole thing. :) Thanks for following everyone and special thanks to everyone who bought a share and believed in me.

I’m leaving town for work today and the banks are closed, so give me a few days to get everything in order. Need to consult about taxes, so I’ll be in touch with everyone who has a piece soon. Sit tight.

Thanks again, everyone. It was a blast!


Micon (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 22:47 UTC)

taxes are pretty easy with CMU, you have a W-2g for the 1st prize, and a very good record of how much of yourself was sold. I’d print this page / report the win as ~ 80% of 1st.

I have a good poker tax guy if you need too. But payouts for us are as the software says.


pokergod18 (7 years ago - 17 Jan 2011 23:26 UTC)

Micon is correct, you only have to claim the 80% you had of yourself. The backers will get as the software says and will report their earnings themselves for tax purposes.


UKnB1mE (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 02:13 UTC)

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!


nbajam (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 05:27 UTC)

Congrats Rob!


Micon (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 05:43 UTC)

$158,755 was the official win

http://twitpic.com/3r0u1y


veeRob (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 09:35 UTC)

Yes, $158,755 was the 1st place payout. -$2k tip to tournament staff.

Still not exactly sure how to deal with taxes. From the opinions I’m getting around the poker community, I am told the “norm” is to withhold 30% for taxes or collect SSN’s and issue 1099’s at year’s end, so you’d be responsible for taxes. The federal government definitely won’t “take my word for it” that I sold off action without issuing 1099’s from what I understand of tax law. Would appreciate it if each of you would privately message me and tell me which you would prefer.


veeRob (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 09:36 UTC)

$158,755 for 1st place less $2,000 to tournament staff and dealers. Am dealing with taxes on a case by case basis, so please contact me to discuss. Thanks, all!


admin (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 10:24 UTC)

Wow!
Very impressed with this huge win. You certainly have developed into a top live player.

Will certainly be watching you at this year’s WSOP.


havenrl (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 10:46 UTC)

woweeeeeeeeee, congrats!!


DaMatrix (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 11:27 UTC)

Congrats veeRob!


Micon (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 11:38 UTC)

there is precedent here on CMU that you do not deduct neither the tip you personally gave nor the taxes from the amount you pay out to the stakers. Personally, I am expecting the full $4,710.90 I am owed.
I recently found a tax guy that specializes in poker. He does the personal taxes of many pro poker players. I asked him specifically about staking / CMU and he explained that you keep your records and report what you actually win and keep good records in case you get audited. BTW each year you do not get audited, the IRS has “taken your word for it”


Micon (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 11:40 UTC)

er… make that $4762.65

158,755 × .03


Takezo1980 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 11:56 UTC)

Wow!
very sick sir.
Nice win!
Congratz!


admin (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 12:41 UTC)

wow congrats rob.!


MDMWINS (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 15:20 UTC)

sickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


Poort (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 16:44 UTC)

CONGRATS!!!!


veeRob (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 19:59 UTC)

Can anyone confirm what Micon is saying about the norm on CMU? I consulted Aaron Bartley (Full Tilt red pro) and was told that the norm is for the tip to be taken out and that 30% withholding or social security for 1099 is the the norm, at least for a competing staking site. Don’t want anyone upset, so we’ll work it out either way. Just would like to know what is expected on this site.


Micon (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 21:00 UTC)

Tony G $10k buy in at the Wynn, won $724k

http://www.chipmeup.com/event/66166/tonyg...

Brandon Adams $10k Stud WSOP 2010, won ~ $400k:

http://www.chipmeup.com/event/65508/brand...

both no tax / no tip


johna8 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 21:23 UTC)

You have sold a total of 92 shares in your winnings. Each share is worth $317.51. Total value of stakes = $29210.92

So your profit as an individual is at $129544.08.
Which is the amount you will pay taxes on.

The stakers imo are entitled to the $317.51. It’s up to them as an individual to sort out their own taxes.
Because the way I see it, some could claim back on taxes themselves such as: travel, accomodation, etc.


__DAVE__ (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 21:29 UTC)

dam wtg rob
am sure itll get cleared up
even some reg members might learn


pokergod18 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 21:40 UTC)

any backing i’ve done or my friends, who are respected pros in the poker community have never taken out for tips or 30% withholding. as stated in the above comments you only get taxed on your earnings not the whole 158k.


pokergod18 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 21:42 UTC)

Lets just get this all out of the way so u can enjoy your win and not stress over this. congrats sir! =)


scsierror (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 22:51 UTC)

imo you guys are whiny little bitches. this is america, not australia. taxes are taken out of profit. so if this event was sold at a markup, it covered the travel accomadations and his time to play event. take 30% off your shares and be greatful. being audited is not coo


PokerShark70 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 23:05 UTC)

AKA JediPoker:

Gross Earnings $158,755.00
Player Shares % Amount Owed
PokerGod18 6 1.2% $1,905.06
JediPoker 40 8.0% $12,700.40
Johna8 11 2.2% $3,492.61
Micon 15 3.0% $4,762.65
nbajam 13 2.6% $4,127.63
onafolddraw 1 0.2% $317.51
tommyboy1977 2 0.4% $635.02*
uknb1me 2 0.4% $635.02
wizzadd 2 0.4% $635.02

92 18.4% $29,210.92

Net Earnings $129,544.08

  • Since this is showing pending payment you may not owe this, not sure on the CMU rules on this.

As the second largest shareholder after Rob, I just want to put in my two cents.

I agree with Micon that taxes are the responsibility of each individual and that since no percentage was mentioned in advance for a tip, any tip given would be exempt from the calculations.

That all being said, I am not familiar with the “Official” rules of CMU regarding tips and I am not a Tax professional.

You may need to fill out a form that lists all investors SSN’s and ammount they were paid that you send to the IRS to report where your winnings you are not paying taxes on went.

JediPoker


PokerShark70 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 23:11 UTC)

That chart didn’t come out to well. Trying again:

Gross Earnings: $158,755.00
Investor Shares % Amount Owed
PokerGod18 6 1.2% $1,905.06
JediPoker 40 8.0% $12,700.40
Johna8 11 2.2% $3,492.61
Micon 15 3.0% $4,762.65
nbajam 13 2.6% $4,127.63
onafolddraw 1 0.2% $317.51
tommyboy1977 2 0.4% $635.02*
uknb1me 2 0.4% $635.02
wizzadd 2 0.4% $635.02
Totals 92 18.4% $29,210.92

Net Earnings $129,544.08

  • Since this is showing pending payment you may not owe this, not sure on the CMU rules on this.

PokerShark70 (7 years ago - 18 Jan 2011 23:12 UTC)

Ok table won’t display correctly. Sorry for the duplicate post


nbajam (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 00:21 UTC)

I don’t see why the tip wouldn’t be taken out from the cash. If I stake someone for a cash game, I don’t ask for them to add in every dollar they give a dealer out of their own pocket.

He’s obviously going to need some sort of personal info for everyone for them to not have tax withheld. Whether that includes SSN for a 1099 being issued depends on how comfortable he is with just having name and address.

I pm’ed him and recommended he talk with an accountant to discuss the options. I don’t know about others, but I would feel much more comfortable providing my SSN to a CPA.


RlseTheKraken (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 00:22 UTC)

Great job well done…………………………….


remainameless (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 21:18 UTC)

tips obv are taken off the top, tips are manditory expenses imo. taxes as stated, can be dealt with one by one on a personal basis by each buyer. but as nbajam said, he needs the peoples info so if he gets audited and has to say who he split with. i would keep a record of the names and banks i shipped to. i wouldnt pay out any way, BUT a bankwire/xfer so he doesnt get stuck in the end with paying taxes on everything(better recoeds than CMU payouts obv). OR the buyers give up 20-25% off the top to rob and claim nothing, rob then claims it all and pays all the taxes. its just like the casino will take if u dont sign a tax form. pretty simple really.


QUAKQUACK (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 21:22 UTC)

VN SCORE WELL DONE- ADMIN SHOULD STEP IN AND ADVISE HIM WHAT TO DO,


remainameless (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 21:23 UTC)

i see rob stated 30% held for taxes. it was 25% max, but i could be wrong as things change rapidly. 30% sounds pretty legit if u dont sign any tax forms or have a tax card(foreign TID#etcetc.)

BTW… sick score, how was the stucture at the FT? im curious at the stack sizes in that turbo adventure by the FT.lol.

nhwpgg!


remainameless (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 21:25 UTC)

well said QUACK, problem is that they are mostly euro guys and probably have less knowledge of US tax law then americans. maybe a little advice from tonygs accountant for free? hook it up tony!!!


veeRob (7 years ago - 19 Jan 2011 21:48 UTC)

I obviously agree with nbajam that the tip is part of the expense. I kept the price/value ratio low and didn’t have to recoup any other expenses since I am local, so I didn’t think it’s unreasonable. I obviously don’t want to make anyone upset, so I’ll eat the tip on my own if that’s what I have to do to make you all happy. Definitely not trying to pull an angle, but if I was an investor I honestly would have no problem with the tip removed from the payouts.

As far as the tax concerns go, I think we’ve reached a conclusion. I will pay out in full and collect SSN’s and addresses for my future tax accountant to issue 1099’s. I’ve spoken with everyone on PM about this and nobody seems to have serious issue with you. I’m working with everyone on a case-by-case basis on the best way to get everyone paid, whether it’s a mailed check, an online transfer, or an in person cash transaction. I will make all of these transactions happen as fast as I can, but I’m not sure how long it will take for the check to clear.

I definitely think CMU should spell out some of these issues as it’s definitely a grey area. In the future, I will make sure my ads spell out all of these details.

Most of the investors have been pretty happy on the ROI, so I appreciate you guys working with me to make all of these decisions. Congrats to all of us!


jconnor (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 01:54 UTC)

My opinion is that a reasonable tip to the dealers should be considered an expense of the event and the seller should not have to pay for this themselves.

You’re only going to be tipping when you’re winning.

We will draw up some guidelines for live events.


wizzadd (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 09:59 UTC)

I just received this Message from Rob

“Hey, haven’t heard from you regarding getting paid on the event I cashed in. I have consulted my accountant, and if I’m reading correctly that you’re in Australia, I am required by law to withhold 30% of your winnings to turn over to my government. My accountant is looking into a way around it, but at this point I can only release 70% of the funds to you. If he can find a loophole, I will release the remaining 30%. Please write me back to confirm that you understand, and I can send payment on Full Tilt or Pokerstars when you provide me with your username. Sorry for the unfortunate news, but it’s still a nice payday, no? Take care.”


wizzadd (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 10:01 UTC)

Quite honestly guys, If I start getting charged 30% when I finally back someone that wins, that’s gunna be it for me


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 10:05 UTC)

I really don’t appreciate you posting a private message here. That was really uncool.

But yes, my tax accountant has informed me that for certain countries, I have to pay the 30% withholding by April 15th, as I am acting as an agent. If you won money in America playing poker, the casino would be withholding the same 30% just the same.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 11:51 UTC)

1) I knew the payout process was going to be painful on this one. I know veeRob personally, we have had disagreements over money in the past, and this is totally not shocking. I was not expecting to have my money by Thursday after his win, a slow pay was the least of my concerns though.

2) veeRob, please contact Brandon Adams. I can text you his phone # if you don’t have it. I would hope you can take the advice of an Ivy-league educated high limit poker player that worked in the financial industry for years and sold lots of pieces on CMU. I’ll side bet he’ll tell you this:

- you don’t need to withhold tax for wizzadd
-
you don’t need to without tax for and USA citizen or otherwise.
— Ask his advice about your tip, which as far as I’m concerned I never agreed to and absolutely comes out of your end. I’ll bet he finds the same.

wizzadd I feel especially bad for you. I hope you don’t get rolled here. Thanks for buying shares of me in the past and I hope this doesn’t turn you off to CMU. I (and almost all others) will always send pre-tax winnings.

Rob I am expecting $4762.60 (158,755 í— .03) and I expect it soon. Cash in Vegas is preferred, I’m available 2pm – 2am local time every day except Sunday. Please do the right thing and make payments quickly.


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:15 UTC)

Micon, I have been discussing with everyone privately and you are one of the only people who thinks that I should pay for the tip entirely and not have it reflected in the payouts.

- I have talked with Brandon Adams on the phone about all of this.
- I have talked with Russ Fox, a prominent poker tax accountant, on the phone about all of this.
- I have emailed with the admins of ChipMeUp about all of this.
- An admin has posted on this thread saying the tip should be deducted.
- I have discussed this with Matt Savage and he also feels the tip should be deducted.

Russ Fox is the one that told me that the foreign residents without tax treaties would need to have 30% withheld. He is looking into a way for this not to be the case, and if he finds a way I will HAPPILY release the 30% I’ve withheld thus far.

You do know I am in Los Angeles right now, so I obviously can’t give you cash in Las Vegas. As it stands, I have a large check that is in limbo with the bank. I have $28k to pay out to my investors, and I just don’t have $28k sitting around in cash/online funds to pay everyone. I withdrew $10k from the bank on Tuesday and was able to trade for online funds to pay four of my investors, starting with the smallest shares.

I’m honestly not trying to upset you, Micon. I wish I had the foresight for all of this and got $28k of the payout in cash, but it was late and that wasn’t the first thing on my mind, I’m afraid. I apologize for that.

If you can accept online funds, I can ask around tomorrow and see if I can someone to loan me the online funds. If you want me to deposit it into your bank, I will do that when the check clears and I can get the cash, and as soon as can find some time to leave the Commerce (I am working 13 hour days, 7 days a week). If you’d like a check, I can mail that as soon as my check clears.

I’m really doing my best here to get everyone paid off as quickly as possible. I’ve never had a score of this size, I’ve never had to pay backers this much money, and I’m trying to handle everything while working 90+ hours a week.

Micon, you are my 2nd largest investor here. I want to make you happy. Both JediPoker and nbajam, my other 2 largest investors, are patiently waiting for my check to clear and will receive a check from me when that happens. I still need to get your social security number and mailing address, so please contact me with that info. Again, if you can accept online funds, I could possibly have that to you as soon as tomorrow.

I hope I covered everything. Please feel free to ask any questions you have. Have a good night, Micon.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:29 UTC)

1) I will accept online funds. micon on ’stars or full tilt (las vegas)

2) a moderator, not an admin posted about the tip situation. I’m sure we can take a poll here on CMU about it. I’ll also bet on the results if you’d like. What did Brandon Adams say about it?

3) we here at CMU are sort of a tight community. Wizzadd has every right to post about your communication, and it should be known that you have paid him 70% of what you owe him, with the 30% now up in the air. I personally don’t believe you need to withhold this amount, and you do. all CMU members deserve to know how this situation works out.


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:39 UTC)

1) OK, I will do what I can to get you the funds online tomorrow. I still need your SSN and address for your 1099.

2) An admin and I emailed about it, and he decided to have a moderator post in the thread. I’d love to see a poll, so if you have a way of posting it with non-biased language, let’s do it. My only concern is that there are more stakers than stakees, so that might skew the viewpoint.

3) I’m OK with letting everyone know that both wizzadd and johna8 have had 30% withheld so far. I am not OK with people posting my personal communications in a public forum. There is a difference, in my opinion. johna8 and I are discussing the problem like adults, while wizzadd has chosen a different route in communications with me. Bottom line is that my tax accountant, Russ Fox, who is highly respected in the poker industry, has told me that this 30% must be withheld.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:49 UTC)

I will report when I receive funds.

As far as wizzadd and johna8 are concerned I couldn’t disagree with you more on this one. What did Brandon Adams say about the taxes on Aussies? about the tip?


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:55 UTC)

I assured Brandon I would keep our conversation confidential. You’re welcome to talk with him to get his opinion.


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:56 UTC)

And just so you’re clear, I still need your social security number and address before I can send any funds.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 12:58 UTC)

details sent via text just now.


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 13:02 UTC)

Details rec’d, will drain what little I have in my online funds to send to you now.


scsierror (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 13:20 UTC)

way to be a classless prick micon


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 13:31 UTC)

scsierror – as investors buying at 125% markup we have a right to understand the details of our payouts.

I have dealt with Rob before, and these are not standard practices on CMU.

When I have won for CMU, if any tip was given it was from my pocket and I would never ask my investors to tip. It seems classless to me.


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 13:32 UTC)

Extra special thanks to my stakers that are being patient with the bank’s hold on my check. I would like to buy dinner or drinks for you guys when you make it to Vegas.


admin (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 14:02 UTC)

Hi guys, I think in this instance lets be happy VeeRob won and in the future we will need to set guidelines about the tipping procedure in live tournaments. I think in this instance Rob was just being generous to the dealers and not being untoward his buyers, I understand if people might have thought he was being too generous. I would say in this case let the winnings be total – tip, in the future we can have some guidelines in place.

rkruok


wizzadd (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 14:26 UTC)

rkruok, would you care to comment on this 30% tax withholding?


rwestover (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 15:22 UTC)

rob, please read the following document (and you can contact the lady who answered the questions, she will get back to you promptly):

STAKING/BACKING PLAYERS

-What are the rules for sharing tournament action?

If you are swapping or selling action in a tournament and you win, they are supposed to accept a Form 5754. You can find this Form along with the instructions on the IRS website at http://www.irs.gov/ . However, most of the casinos are not accepting this, even though they are supposed to. So, the best thing for you to do is make sure you have everyone's address and social security number BEFORE you pay them. At the end of the year, you will need to prepare (for US Citizens), a Form 1099-MISC and put the amount you pay them in Box 3, Other Income.

http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/tax-qa-585513/


rwestover (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 15:37 UTC)

this is not about doing what is commonplace on CMU, but rather what is correct tax protocol.

and i like that micon is fighting over a $94 tip on a $4700 payment. give me a break. expect nothing less from a guy who scammed a guy on a deal a couple months back.


remainameless (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 18:01 UTC)

u dont tip at all micon? seems pretty weak imo.

i agree with rw about it being about doing whats correct for future growth, rather than just do what BA or anyone else decided to do on their own. im sure BA tips dealers and takes it out of his share, but that just shouldnt be expected from anyone. i take that as BA just being nice. i scored(real small comparing) on a venetian deepstack, and i tipped. i didnt take it out(i will report it to irs though), but i feel i could have. its standard to tip and its on the stake, not the player. like was said about the cashgame tipping, it wouldnt be expected to figure in tips. to say the player pays the tip out of his share is just greedy. BUT, if he tipped over 3% or so, id be asking him to cover above that as its getting generous at that point. we need some guidlines obv, but descriptions just need to be clear for the most part.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 23:39 UTC)

1) remainnameless – I tip, and when I do it’s out of my own pocket. Never from investors. I see you and BA both do the same.

2) rwestover – “a guy who scammed a guy on a deal a couple months back” ? Care to elaborate? Every time I win for CMU I ship almost instantly and have never had a problem here in a few years.

Maybe you guys don’t see what’s going on here but I know Rob personally and I see exactly what’s happening. He has withheld 30% of the winnings from two investors, and is trying to pass on a $2k tip (that I’d bet he actually tipped, but there is little proof) to the inevestors. This borders on scamming in my book, and you can’t give him free passes just because he won. I and others buy a lot of pieces that don’t win, so when you do win you must be paid properly.

You guys should be asking Rob to “stop fighting over the $94 tip” and to release the 30% withholding for Wizzadd and Johna8 – he had the biggest win of us all.

BTW I am still owed the full $4,762.65 – nothing has been paid to me yet. as I said, I expected to be the last one because of Rob’s and my history.


admin (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 23:41 UTC)

Hi this situation is still being investigated, especially the tax point.

rkruok


veeRob (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 23:51 UTC)

Just got off the phone with my bank. They expect the funds to be released on Tuesday.

Only four of my eight investors have been paid, and I have paid in the order that I have received SSN’s and have been able to get the funds available. You only sent me your SSN today, Micon, so you were not even eligible for payment until today. You are one of the top 3 investors in this stake, and the other top 2 are patiently waiting. I am attempting to borrow online funds to pay you since you seem to think waiting until the check clears is unreasonable.

You will be paid $4710.90 as the discussion in this thread clearly shows that you are alone in your thinking. You can choose not to invest in me in the future.

Feel free to contact Derek the floor manager at the Red Rock to confirm my $2k tip.

Have a nice day.


Micon (7 years ago - 20 Jan 2011 23:59 UTC)

veeRob -

1) veeRob (11 hours ago – 20 Jan 2011 13:02 UTC)

Details rec'd, will drain what little I have in my online funds to send to you now.

2) “I would like to buy dinner or drinks for you guys when you make it to Vegas”

you can hold off on the dinner or drinks (careful not to add an “and” so you would be on the hook for both?) and just pay me the full amount you owe me. I’m not going to let you steal $100 from me in this case.


veeRob (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 00:05 UTC)

1) Correct, and then I followed up with a message that I have reached my maximum transfer for the day and will transfer you when it allows me to transfer more.

2) You can include the full message. “Extra special thanks to my stakers that are being patient with the bank's hold on my check. I would like to buy dinner or drinks for you guys when you make it to Vegas.” I was referring to JediPoker and nbajam.

Full amount I owe to you coming. Full amount = $4,710.90.

Have a nice day.


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 00:07 UTC)

also I encourage others to speak up if you feel the tip shouldn’t be taken out from investors. I know wizzadd is with me, so Rob don’t convince yourself just yet that “the thread clearly states” anything.


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 00:08 UTC)

going to link this up on DonkDown, and maybe a few more message boards so we can get an accurate poll on the tip situation.


veeRob (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 00:09 UTC)

Still waiting for that poll you said you’d start.


wizzadd (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:17 UTC)

I have to agree that tipping using investors money should never be acceptable. The reason being, once a precedent is set there will be some that will take advantage of it.


veeRob (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:22 UTC)

LOL @ racist titled thread on your own personal website being the non-biased poll I asked for.


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:32 UTC)

http://www.donkdown.com/forum/jew-jew-money-gru...

for the poll

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/184/staking-s...

for obvious agreement that Rob should pay the full tip

and, now the full story comes out:

@pokerati tweets:
Hey @veerob, dealers bitchin that you stiffed w 0% tip. (they always forget the house take4staff, I know.) what’s my tip for handling ur PR?

then veerob tweets (via twitlonger):

Rob Perelman

On Wednesday 19th January 2011, @veeRob said:

Time to talk about tips. @Pokerati @BJNemeth @WhoJedi @AsianSpa @joykendra @SavagePoker – I imagine the rumor came because I did not leave my tip on Sunday night when I won. Was super tired and wanted to sleep on it. Met up with the TD the next day and left a $2k tip, which is around 1.3%. For the record, they took out FOUR PERCENT for this tournament… 2% for Heartland Poker Tour and 2% for dealers. Tournament staff got no cut at all, so TD and I discussed a fair breakdown of the $2k between tournament staff and dealers. On top of that, the rake for this $1k was $100, which is slightly larger than the “norm” in live tournaments. Also, I suspect that I may have been the sole person from the final table that left a tip, which is unfortunate if it’s true.


can’t believe i didn’t see this earlier. Now I get it – he originally doesn’t tip, which in this case of the 4% prizepool percentage already taken out this isn’t that bad (although I would still have given $100’s to the best dealers & the TDs). But then Pokerati tweet-shames him into going back the next day and tipping. so now veeRob has to pass that savings on to his backers to soften the blow a little!


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:38 UTC)

Admin has said that in the future no tips will be withheld from future events. Rob, do the right thing and pay your investors what is owed

I have recieved $1,070.78 from veeRob via online xfer at this point

I am owed $3,691.87


veeRob (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:41 UTC)

No longer responding to racists liars that are trying to run a smear campaign.

Any other investors that have anything left to discuss can contact me privately. Micon’s actions have forced me to stop reading this wall.


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 01:48 UTC)

I will take the above statement as a full admission of guilt.

if by “smear campaign” you mean “posting tweets that you and others wrote about the event in question” I guess you are right.

The thread title on DonkDown has no bearing in this discussion. Ignore that thread if you’d like, and read this one on 2+2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/184/staking-s...

Now that it’s clear what happened I can understand why you would try to ignore it. I suppose you will also be ignoring wizzadd and his request for his full payment?


themango69 (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 03:39 UTC)

Rob – This is how I would handle this:

1) Just cut your losses for the tip and unfortunately be the first great example as what needs to be defined in a live event later.

2) Disable Micon from buying future shares


themango69 (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 03:42 UTC)

Micon -

1) Wtf are you even buying shares if you already have this predetermined animosity towards him and are going to be this unreasonable about payment turnaround after he hits such a big score? If anyone lets you buy their shares in the future, they gotta be nuts or desperate for money.

2) @ “for obvious agreement that Rob should pay the full tip” – just because 10 people would agree to this (no matter who the f they are) doesn’t make anything obvious. I bet it would split down the line here at CMU (probably more in favor to split tip among investors) about how this should go since Live Events rarely happen (or win).

People who say a tip should not count IMO are thinking like Rob doesn’t have his % in. He has his % as well that he’s paying for as well to get into this tourney and to put it fully on him to be disrespectful in a live tourney is very inconsiderate. I am one to always find a reason to not tip and I can’t see how you can get out of a tourney like this and not be the biggest dick if you don’t tip – so how is that fair that the tip completely goes out of his %? I do understand the argument that it should be talked with other investors on agreement, but in this online environment – how is that reasonable to do that on the spot and expect agreement among all??? The resolution in the future is to now put it in the event, but you have to understand that i’ve never seen anyone consider this for a live event as to date (ahead of time)- so quit making it like the guy is a thief.


rwestover (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 03:55 UTC)

micon, here is your elaboration:

http://www.chipmeup.com/forum/3/topic/148...


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 03:57 UTC)

have now rec’d a total of $4,710.90 from veeRob. This is quite a curious number, as he owes me now $51.75

I suppose this is the number Rob intends to short me on this payout. Curious number, and again I can’t say this surprises me one bit.

GL to the other share holders in collecting your entire payout. When I win for CMU I like to make quick, full payments to make the experience better for my share buyers.

It is clear that precedent lends itself to Rob paying the full tip. In his own words there was a 4% tip we all paid anyway, then he shame-tipped another $2k, and tried to write off 20% of it to his share buyers. Pitiful, disgraceful, totally against the spirit of CMU, and as the admin has said will be made illegal in the future.


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 04:03 UTC)

rwestover – I fully admit now and then to making a mistake, and said mistake was rectified in ~ 24 hrs.


Mezz2408 (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 05:37 UTC)

Hey Rob,

Just wanted to congratulate you on your excellent performance and to tell you to not let the absolutely stupid discussion get to you and distract you from that beautiful victory. Whatever Micon may say, no one is gonna take this away from you.

As for the tip, I for one and with me for sure many others would be perfectly ok with taking it out of the winning with such a fantastic result. I hope to have one day be in the same position myself, lol. It shows at least some social behaviour towards the people on the other side of the table. But that’s my opinion. Admin does right to give guidelines in this.

To Micon, stop making such a total ass out of yourself and show some respect instead towards this achievement. The fact that you bought shares in his event, while you apparantly already had a beef with him, gives me the impression that you were just looking for this to happen before the event started, so you could continue your little soap on here. Give it up man, show some dignity. Meanwhile I sent your resumé to the directors of the upcomning soap “As The Stomach Turns.” You got talent, so expect an invitation to do audition.

Anyway, again, congrats Rob! Have fun and cherish this victory !! Very well done!

Having said that, are those open shares still available? lol.

Cheers!


Micon (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 06:28 UTC)

Mezz2408 – you suggest that I bought shares, hoping Rob would win, so I could knowingly get shorted and could complain publicly? seems like a tough read even for me.

I’m sure you are friendly with Rob and that’s fine. I think your friendship has blinded you that he is withholding 30% payout from two stakers, $ that bracelet winner Todd “Dan Druff” Witteles says should be paid based on USA tax laws (pg 2 or 3):

http://www.donkdown.com/forum/jew-jew-money-gru...

Poker is a game of inches. You can’t think “oh it’s a big win, let $100 go” ( or in johna8’s case, $1k) most stakes will be losers. When you get the win you should be paid out correctly.


remainameless (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 06:30 UTC)

+1 mango.

micon, u seem like a fun guy to hang out with or wtvr, but u are the worst at dealing with business and money. this is the third time ive seen u basically not listen to anything said and stick to ur guns, no matter if ur wrong or not. just realize ur wrong and deal with it.
the 24 hrs to pay that $700 that u F’d up the deal on just cause u werent sure the guy would have paid u in the same spot. i need to ask dandruf, u said? really? ur a grown man, thats just weak that situation was 500% worse than rob taking a couple days to pay this and make sure taxes were correct.
as for the tip, if u in buy me in a live game, im paying small tips out of pocket and big ones from the winnings, at my own discretion. its part of the stake and should be shared. u said urself that u tip, so its obv that tipping is standard, correct? if i feel generous, ill pay it, if its too much for me at the time, we all pay it. obv ill make sure to say it in the description.
im not dumb and i will say my belief is that u would do the same thing on a tip that size or even less. ull deny it obv. this small money ur going on about may actually cost u more if u ever ship big for CMU live and have tip 2k urself. u wouldnt have done it if u shipped before this, dont lie to urself. u seem like such a fun guy, but its hard to believe when u act like this. u have no respect for ur urself, u just dont know it yet. i was just getting to like u again after the $700 HU deal kinda faded away, but damn. sad imo.


remainameless (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 06:44 UTC)

the 30% withheld is up for debate obv. if im rob, i do wtvr my accountant says cause thats all thats real to me, not some guys in a thread(with a simply ignorant title). what would u do if u were told to hold it by ur accountant micon? would u listen to some random bracelet winner? my advice is dont point out that dandruff won a bracelet, maybe say sth of his tax experience if u want the statement to have any validity. im not taking tax advice from even some of the top pros when it counts. if ur accountant is wrong, u have a chance. go ahead and get audited, then say “well i asked a random bracelet winner and he said this…” gl with that.


dandruff (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 08:46 UTC)

While I am friends with Micon, I have always liked Rob and stayed out of the previous issues between him and Micon.

However, he is dead wrong in this situation, and his actions here border on shady.

There are two issues in play here — passing on the cost of tipping and withholding money for taxes.

I’ll touch upon the tipping one first.

There was an automatic tip set up for this tournament. By entering the tournament, you are tipping the dealers whether you like it or not. This is in place in most live tournaments these days, including the WSOP. Therefore, most people don’t separately tip tournament dealers anymore, unless they’re feeling extra generous.

If Rob wanted to give the dealers an extra $2k the next day, more power to him. I’m sure the dealers appreciated it. However, this should NOT be passed along to the stakers, especially without warning them beforehand. The stakers already paid a tip, as it was automatically deducted from the prizepool. Rob claimed that he would forego deducting the tip in order to make people happy, but I’m disappointed to see that he ultimately chose to deduct it anyway.

Now, what of the 30% withholding for the Australian stakers?

This is completely unnecessary, and is a slap in the face to one of the most prolific stakers on the site.

The IRS regulations on this matter are confusing, but perhaps you would be required to withhold this if you went completely by the book.

However, if you’re so obsessed with doing everything by the book, there are many other things I’m sure you’re not doing in regards to your professional poker career. Do you list your Pokerstars and Full Tilt accounts as “foreign bank accounts”? I doubt it.

In reality, you could easily simply ignore the Australian chipmeup stakes, send their full payouts (no withholding) on Full Tilt or Stars, and claim those as “gambling losses”. Since the IRS does not have access to records of either site, they couldn’t tell the difference. Even if they did find out, you likely wouldn’t be in any trouble, as indeed these were real expenses you incurred by entering the tournament.

Your situation is different than a large casino such as Harrah’s, who has to present the IRS a big list of everyone who cashed in each tournament, along with their SSN and/or location. They have no way around the 30%, while you definitely do.

At the very least, I hope you provide wizadd and whoever else concrete proof that you really sent that 30% to the IRS, which is both legally required and morally proper.


remainameless (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 09:17 UTC)

valid points and said with civility. im in agreement that the tip was obv too big or not needed in this case and probably should be paid by rob just to make it right since nothing was said on the description, and call it a learning experience. also that future listings should state that tips only come out if none are taken from prizepool already or that u tip X% out of PP no matter what, etc. anything over that is on the players and that makes perfect sense.

“Your situation is different than a large casino such as Harrah's, who has to present the IRS a big list of everyone who cashed in each tournament, along with their SSN and/or location. They have no way around the 30%, while you definitely do.” dont agree as its televised FT and i think its tracked on CP and the other sites for POY, correct? either way, i wouldnt hide from it if i were him. i would bet the IRS has a clue about the tracking sites for live tournies by now and monitor them at least a little.

“At the very least, I hope you provide wizadd and whoever else concrete proof that you really sent that 30% to the IRS, which is both legally required and morally proper.” agreed for sure, that should go without saying.


dandruff (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 10:54 UTC)

remainnameless:

The IRS will definitely know he won the tournament, as the casino submits a form to them indicating the win.

However, if Rob simply claimed wizadd’s part as his own and paid taxes on it, but then subtracted the money he shipped to wizadd on Full Tilt as a “gambling loss”, it would break out the same way without the 30% withholding ever getting involved. The IRS would also have virtually no way to track this down, either. Again, even if they did, it wouldn’t be considered tax evasion because Rob would have actually paid that money as an expense for playing the tournament.

wizadd makes a great point: He is one of the more prolific stakers here, and is probably down money here overall. If he finally hits a score and is stuck losing 30% from it, he has little incentive to continue staking here.

I don’t blame him.

People like Rob should make life easier for guys like wizadd, rather than finding ways to earn the IRS money.

I would understand if Rob didn’t want to take a risk of additional tax liability or getting into legal trouble, but the risk here is virtually zero, and I’m sure he’s smart enough to know that he can easily get around this — just like he gets around declaring Full Tilt and Pokerstars as foreign bank accounts.


remainameless (7 years ago - 21 Jan 2011 23:36 UTC)

good points. too bad micon cant learn to handle things better. i dont know u at all, so dont take offense at what i said, ur just an example that he used and it is what it is, i was making a general point about the bracelet thing. no worries, peace.


GambleAB (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 00:24 UTC)

I just wanted to respond to something Micon said yesterday, “can't believe i didn't see this earlier. Now I get it – he originally doesn't tip, which in this case of the 4% prizepool percentage already taken out this isn't that bad (although I would still have given $100's to the best dealers & the TDs). But then Pokerati tweet-shames him into going back the next day and tipping. so now veeRob has to pass that savings on to his backers to soften the blow a little!”

I (along with a handful of other people) were there when Rob was getting paid and he always intended to go back the next morning when he had cash to tip the dealers/floor staff out. I believe he needed some time when everything was a little more calm to figure out what an appropriate amount to tip was, and to collect the cash to do so.

Also, the tweet you quoted was tweeted on Wednesday, and Rob left on Monday for LA so it’s just not physically possible for that to have been the catalyst for his tipping. Also, there is a post on this very wall that Rob made saying that he tipped 2k that is dated at 9:35 on Tuesday the 18th, a full day before the tweet you quoted.


redrocktdderek (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 00:51 UTC)

Hi all I am Derek the tournament director for the Heartland Poker Tournament at Red Rock last week. Out of the main event prize pool there was 4% withheld which was 2% for dealers and 2% for HPT, and nothing was taken out from all the qualifiers and super qualifiers during the week to get players into the main event. After winning the tournament at 5am Rob was givin a check by the cashier for $158,755. At this time he asked me for my phone number and expressed that he would leave a tip but wanted to sleep on it first, which is 100% OK. He then called me about 3pm on monday and asked to meet on his way out of town and we did at south point where he gave me $2000 for the staff. I dont know of any dealer who said he didnt leave anything and if I find out that any did they will never work with me again period! I did not want to be involved in this but heard of the issue going on and wanted to let everyone know that Rob did leave $2000 for the staff. If anyone needs anything furth from me, please let me know.


themango69 (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 01:51 UTC)

Admin – this is a perfect opportunity to create something to help people when creating a “live event” stake to mention all details (spell it out for people as many people will not think about everything). This will help alleviate any future issues like this, which I believe starts to detract from the impressive win. I would have line items for things like:

tip
airfare
hotel
car
whatever…

I think this would also be useful because I’ve seen people charge for alot of the travel stuff before in the event and I’m not seeing those things charged in this event (could be mistaken).


ZeBeSt7R (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 02:28 UTC)

ITT micon ZEBS IT UP!
way to act like an immature fuck and lose all the respect many had for you.


Harp221122 (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 02:36 UTC)

lol at continuing to say wizzadd is one of the most prolific stakers on the site.

Wizzadd is a valuable member of the site and buys and sells shares but 1300 shares bought is nowhere near prolific and i am sure he will say that.

Lets all stick to the facts and get it solved instead of the mudslinging and trying to build up your points with other pointless wrong information guys


rwestover (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 06:13 UTC)

@ dandruff: “There was an automatic tip set up for this tournament. By entering the tournament, you are tipping the dealers whether you like it or not. This is in place in most live tournaments these days, including the WSOP. Therefore, most people don't separately tip tournament dealers anymore, unless they're feeling extra generous.”

This is not a true statement. In fact, you won’t get your money without the staff at least mentioning something about a tip, whether it be “If you’d like to leave a tip, let me know before writing this slip for the cashier” or as blatant as “would you like to leave a tip for the dealers?”. Pretending the 2% means something is like saying you shouldn’t tip dealers in cash games because their making minimum wage. I would imagine the main reason the 2% is being taken out is because of a lot of foreigners (who now partake in these tournaments) don’t have common tipping practices, but that’s just a guess. Was nice playing in London where you’re tips were no good.


TitanLucky (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 12:55 UTC)

The tax issue is potentially a thorn in the side for stakers and players. We would all rather pay out net, but there can easily be problems if audited if you dont have full identification details on the player you are paying. The rules are changing regularly and its a big grey area even if you are a tax accountant.

If your buyer hasnt signed tax forms and is a random who you are sending cash into cyberspace to pay down his share win, you will probably get clobbered for the tax yourself if you pay him 100% and dont firmly know who he is.

Its inpractical though for a player to ask for tax forms to be signed by every backer before he plays (even a small) online event, BUT PS and FTP cashier security do ask for passports/addresses etc before they allow any large transfers or cashes. Cannot CMU do the same so that when they open an account they have official details on every player including passport copy and some forms he has to sign to receive any large payouts gross?? I mean that is really the admin help we need so that we are never sending to anonymous.

It is each individual payers responsibility to report all share sales as foreign income etc and just as you need to provide an invoice before a business pay you, we need to know that there is a passport on file before paying.

CMU should also relatively easily, as required, be able to provide all players with total shares sale income (CMU) statement at year end. This would be far more believable than your own excel spreadsheet that cannot be verified without exposing your poker accounts.

If the IRS comes after the player, he can show who he paid and details of the person behind the bank transfer.

Another issue CMU may want to consider is when a player is paid out via CMU (gross) whether CMU as paying agent transferring the CMU$ are responsible for deducting witholding tax. If I pay out via CMU$ then CMU is my agent and as such if they incorrectly pay out gross without any signed tax forms to “allow” this, do they have a professional liability for the tax they didnt deduct?


Micon (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 14:02 UTC)

Guys I appreciate all the feedback, thoughts and opinions expressed here. I realize situations like this breed strong emotions.

Let me say that I still feel very strong about the tip situation, in that investors should not be made to pay it. I realize that speculating as to the motivation behind the tip is irrelevent.

As I also said before, Rob and I have history, and I feel he treated me and other friends of mine unfair in the past. Let me share a story that happened to one my good friend, a guy that used to be one of veeRob’s good friends until this happened:

a few years ago Rob was playing 1/2 NL with some friends. The game was kicked up to 2/5 NL, and Rob asked my friend to take half of him. My friend said that he would, and at this point my friend was pretty busted up and said that most of his net worth was online, and if he lost he would need some time to pay. Rob agreed, and proceeded to lose $800 in the game. My friend owed $400, and had a handful of clothes and other personal belongings at Rob’s house at the time. They were good friends and my friend frequently stayed with Rob while in Vegas, as he was in the process of moving there. The next day Rob was reading off his bank statement, saying he had $95,000 in his account. My friend then goes back home for a few weeks to collect the rest of his belongings, and when he returned found an email from Rob saying he was going to sell his clothes to cover part of the debt. My friend was livid, and to this day they are not friends anymore. This friend is a mid-limit poker player and for the last few years has been doing pretty well.

This is the type of person veeRob is. This is reason why I am so adament about the $51.75 that he still owes me. I have never fought with anyone on CMU before, and I have no beefs with anyone else I have ever done business with. Some people may think this is harsh, but I can’t let this guy get away with nickel and diming the CMU community after he has screwed over me and my friends.


Carl_ (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 14:08 UTC)

EPIC THREAD

ROB CONGRATS

SKIPPED 3/4 OF THE SPEECHES

PLEASE ROB USE THE FEATURE IN CMU SETTINGS AND MAKE SURE THE IDIOTS WHO ARE GIVING YOU A HEADACHE CAN NEVER BUY FROM YOUR EVENTS AGAIN PLEASE.

THEN PLEASE BINK A ANOTHER HUGE EVENT :)

LIKE FFS WHO GIVES A FCK BOUT A COUPLE OF BUCKS, THE DUDE JUST GAVE U MORONS A SICK RETURN.


rwestover (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 15:52 UTC)

MICONWHY DID YOU BUY FROM HIM THEN?

Mezz – “The fact that you bought shares in his event, while you apparantly already had a beef with him, gives me the impression that you were just looking for this to happen before the event started, so you could continue your little soap on here.”

I’d agree.


Micon (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 20:45 UTC)

rwestover – It was a total misclick. Was trying to buy David Plastik. I bought shares of David on I think 3 separate occasions, whenever I had a little bit of CMU $.


veeRob (7 years ago - 22 Jan 2011 22:28 UTC)

LOL @ Micon’s made up story. That never happened, though I think about 1% of his story has some truth to it.

All of my investors have been paid at this point.

As much as I have disagreed with almost every word you have said, and you have treated me so poorly in all of this, I don’t want you unhappy. You’ve finally bullied me into paying you off, under the condition that you remove the racist-titled thread from your message board, do not post anything on any of my CMU threads again, and do not text me threatening comments anymore. If I have your word on that, I will send you the money you think you’re entitled to.


Carl_ (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 00:33 UTC)

man that micon got issues, and he’s trying his best to make you look bad in the poker world with his admin tough sticker on at donkeydown.
Dude is soo pathetic to be making a scene when a Horse just made him 4.5k from a tiny investment.
So pathetic to say it was a mis-click to buy shares.

This could of been settled in a much better way Micon.


Micon (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 01:48 UTC)

Story is 100% accurate. I’m going to see if my friend still has the email and I’m going to post it on DonkDown.

As you know, DonkDown is an uncenored poker forum with over 15k users and over 1M posts. We pride ourselves on not deleting things, so our users know if they post something controversial it stays visable for all. This “racist thread” is no differnet (Is it racist when rappers drop the N word? That Snoop Dog is quite a racist.. so is Dave Chapelle by veeRob’s standards)

Anyway, you will pay me the $51.75 or you won’t. Just like you will pay wizzadd and johna8 the 30% or you won’t. Just like you’ll roll your investors out of their share of a $2k tip. Remember Rob – passing the tip on to investors will be ILLEGAL on CMU after this day.

I am a call-it-like-I-see-it kind of guy. I have had ZERO problems with anyone else here on CMU, and I’ve been buying and selling since almost the beginning. Rob has treated both me and others that I know unfairly in the past, so that is why I take such a strong stance on these matters.


UKnB1mE (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 01:59 UTC)

I did receive my full payout from Rob and actually thought he communicated quite well and was up front and honest about his tax concerns. I don’t know about “poker tax accountants” but i am a business owner and consulted my accountant on this matter. He stated that Rob is handling it correctly and the two options available to stakers were commonplace in this situation.

Congrats again on the win Rob!! It was cool to have a small piece of it.


UKnB1mE (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:04 UTC)

As far as the tip goes, I do understand where the issue with taking it off the top while not stating anything about the possibility of a tip being deducted from winnings in the event details.

I personally have no idea what is customary at these live events but didn’t think much of it tbh….granted it was only a few bucks taken from my payout


remainameless (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:07 UTC)

dont compare ur use of racist slurs with rappers saying the “n” word. not even on the same planet as far as context. just leave it alone, ur not gonna make it sound right no matter what u say. call it a day and move on.


Carl_ (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:18 UTC)

wow this comment from Micon last post at donkdown

Just to point out the obvious to all those who don’t know.

Friend = Micon

I guess it was personal all along. Shame on you Micon


Carl_ (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:20 UTC)

I bet it’s true, You ranted how you n rib used to be close. I’m sure it’s you now and this is just personal, Taxes and $$ is just a cover up to ruin a name cause u still mad at the past


Nightmarefis (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:21 UTC)

Once Rob sold those pieces of himself, that money no longer is his thus he can’t do whatever he pleases with it. I don’t see why this is so confusing for everyone. The tip is on Rob and him alone.


Nightmarefis (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:24 UTC)

carl
the post friend=micon wasn’t written by Micon and later in the thread Micon once again says that friend doesn’t = Micon. Come on guy


Carl_ (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 02:53 UTC)

Yeah, Just noticed everyone quotes everyone, Still this subject has gone too far, Nobody was scamming and Micon could of handled everything better, If i was Micon I’d want to reinvest in a player like ROB who just scored huge for him, Obv Micon has planned this out like a game of chess imo just to ruin ROB, It goes beyond taxes and $$ IMO, And every1 can see that.

Anyway I have said enough, And I really don’t believe Rob deserves such treatment after a great return to CMU


Nightmarefis (7 years ago - 23 Jan 2011 03:03 UTC)

So you think that Rob should be able to tip whatever he wants out of money that isn’t his? And he doesn’t deserve criticism simply because it was a good return for CMU investors? shocking statements! If someone buys 1% they want their 1%, not their 1% minus whatever the player decides to tip. Plus if players were able to does this, these situations could set up very easily for angle shooting.


rwestover (7 years ago - 25 Jan 2011 07:37 UTC)

i like all these new guys who have opinions (i.e. Nightmarefis). obviously they are micon lemmings. micon sort of showed his integrity by stating that the shares he bought were a ‘misclick’. It doesn’t even look like you purchased them via CMU$ (which means you had to actually ship him money), but regardless, purchasing shares is a two step process, so ‘misclick’ is bullshit.


remainameless (7 years ago - 25 Jan 2011 09:25 UTC)

what i learned from this…
1.state what ur doing in the description as far as tips and taxes cause some buyers are just greedy.
2.micon could use lessons in common sense, ethics, and internal honesty.
3.and that basically, id have a beer with either rob or micon(seem like cool people outside of handling business), but i wont invest in them anytime soon. as much as micon handled it much worse, it wasnt handled perfectly on either side.

i say its a live and learn situation for both.


rwestover (7 years ago - 25 Jan 2011 14:48 UTC)

smear campaign’s FTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpuTMY6yMU


Micon (7 years ago - 25 Jan 2011 22:12 UTC)

Yes rwestover, when people steal from me I don’t take it lying down. BTW Justin Wade Smith is currently serving a prison sentence in Oregon. He is an actual career scammer / criminal.


rwestover (7 years ago - 25 Jan 2011 23:29 UTC)

i’m not even sure what you did was legal (posting someone’s personal info, ssn, etc.). you seem to have an ass backwards way of handling situations.

p.s. glad to hear that guy is in jail though. never believe a “give me $5k and i’ll give you $20k tomorrow” proposition.


admin (7 years ago - 26 Jan 2011 12:53 UTC)

micon, from what we understand he has paid you now.

we consider this issue now close.

no more posts on this thread attacking each other please, or it gets locked and users will get a ban from posting.


admin (7 years ago - 27 Jan 2011 02:02 UTC)

In the future we will probably institute a policy of max tipping up to 2%, after that it comes out the player’s share only.


Gemraid (7 years ago - 07 Feb 2011 00:56 UTC)

Why don’t you all move to the uk ? no gambling tax to pay :)


top2pr (7 years ago - 07 Feb 2011 15:41 UTC)

that took along time to read. :-)


ZeBeSt7R (7 years ago - 08 Feb 2011 02:37 UTC)

Micon, you are such a fucking tool.
Everyone should ban you from buying their shares. You re the kind of person that would create a fuss about a 150k score in a KO score because a 20$ KO wasnt counted.


pokerproplaya08 (7 years ago - 18 Feb 2011 12:39 UTC)

After reading this thread, I mean, I hardly had respect for Micon anyway after see’ing his LOLworthy audition video for victory poker, but I definitely have 0 for him now.

lol, you’re a joke “Icon”



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