AQUARAIDER - PokerStars - AQUA/DUNK 10K BR EVENT..SUBJECT ONLY

OK GUYS…THIS IS THE CONTINUATION OF THE ORIGINAL EVENT COMMENTS…TO BE USED TO DISCUSS AND UPDATE ON THE PREVIOUS COMMENTS

ElizaJane10 (12 hours ago – 23 Nov 2011 00:58 UTC)

My Poker Stars account has officially been frozen. The last Sunday of this event, I played while in US. After some disconnect issues, poker stars noticed I did indeed play while in the US. They asked for documents. I sent them correct documents and told them I was in US for short time, and told them I was unaware that “non-US players” were not allowed to play via VPN in US. Anyway, they got my documents, verified them as being accurate and simply said that I played my account from the boundries of the US and that is against their “agreement documents” and relationship with the DOJ.

I asked them for a warning, and they simply said, "Until further instructions/rules are given to them by the DOJ regarding instances like mine, my account will continue to be frozen. Thus, Aqua and I’s combo payouts and profits are stuck in my PS account.

I have traded dozens of emails with them, and the most recent reply seems mostly POSITIVE. The most recent email reads:

“PokerStars has been in extensive discussions with the DOJ monitor, and we are pleased to advise that we have agreed in principle on a general methodology to apply in situations where accounts have been accessed from the United States. We are continuing to work out the details, and apply it to individual cases (such as yours).

The DOJ monitor has advised that it is his expectation that this process will be completed by the end of November, although if we can get it resolved faster, then we will do so."

I will keep everyone updated as I hear updates. Thank you for ur patience in this annoying ordeal

tx for explanation Dunk.

Was expecting something like this. Always when you win then suddenly pokerstars notices things.

Been investing for years now in you guys so I have patience and know you are working towards a solution.

Keep us posted

Gr N

I must say I am not pleased to hear you used a VPN from the USA Dunk. They can confiscate the money in the account for that and there is a lot of money in there that is not yours (presumably). I trust that you will take responsibility and see to it that everyone gets paid should the worst case scenario hit. However, I dont think Stars is going to go that far this time. Also, if your account does get reinstated I will not stop investing over this. Im sure such an abhorrent violation of the TOS that jeopardizes investor money will never happen again.

GL getting it straightened out man

Dave

HEY GUYS…

I GOT A OFFER TO MAKE TO THE BUYERS WHO ARE OWED $.

THESE ARE THE CONDITIONS OF MY OFFER.

1. OWED BUYERS MUST INVEST IN MY EVENTS.

2. IF I GET A +ROI EVENT AND YOU ARE INVESTED IN THAT EVENT.. I WILL ADD ONTO YOUR PAYOUT 50% OF YOUR +ROI WINNINGS.
EXAMPLE— IF YOU WIN $100 ON MY EVENT YOU ARE INVESTED IN I WILL ADD ON AN EXTRA $50 MAKING UR PAYOUT $150 OF +ROI WINNINGS.

3. I WILL KEEP A SPREADSHEET OF MY OWN TO KEEP TRACK OF WHATS LEFT OWING…AND YOU SHOULD AS WELL.

4.THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL…DUNK MUST AGREE THAT HE WILL PAY ME THE $ OWED TO BUYERS THAT I WILL BE PAYING TO BUYERS— THAT AGREE TO THIS— WHEN HE GETS HIS $ FROM POKERSTARS.
IF HE DOES NOT EVER GET HIS $ FROM POKERSTARS THEN HE MUST AGREE TO PAY ME WHEN HE GETS BACK ONLINE AND PLAYING AGAIN..REGARDLESS OF WHAT SITE HE IS PLAYING ON.

IF THESE TERMS ARE ALL ACCEPTED THEN I WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS DEAL.
THIS IS THE BEST SHORT TERM SOLUTION I CAN THINK OF THAT I CAN LIVE WITH.

THOUGHTS ?

..
OR…GIMME A DIFFERENT SCENARIO ..I REALLY DUNNO .

I,M WILLING TO TRY ANYTHING TO GET BUYERS $ TO THEM FASTER.

thx aqua for ur thoughts. basicly its not a bad idea, if i understood it right it works like this:
for example:
- dunk owe me 100$
- i invest 50$ share in AQUAs new event
- Aqua makes 100$ share profit ( so my winnings are 50$)
- with the 50% rule aqua makes the 100$ into 150$ ( my profit is 100$ now)
- in the background aqua deduct from the owed money from dunk 50$ , so my origin 100$ melting down to 50$ and so on till the owned money melt down till 0$

So my question is: The offer with 50% winnings is only for the owed money? If the owed money is paid back, the offer is no more available?

Hey Chris,

As a regular investor and convinced of your poker skills I can live with this solution you offer.

Even though I am not in need of the money, so I don’t mind waiting, I do have to say something though that has been on my mind, in respect to this.

I have to agree with Pax120. Playing on US territory using VPN was at least a very risky thing to do. Even though lots of people will claim that this has been a safe way of avoiding trouble and still be playing poker, Dunk did give the initiative away to Pokerstars.

We can of course all say PS and the DOJ are bastards stealing our money, fact remains that within their T&C they have the right to freeze the account. Steve took a risk, got caught and in that respect technically is sole responsible for this.

In that respect I would say, without having a clue as to what his financial situation is, outside the poker world the logical thing (after getting clarity from PS in the coming week or so) would be to deposit the investment back from his bank account to your bank account, so you can pay people back their investment, without any hard feelings.

I am only a small investor and as I said, I don’t mind waiting, also because I personally think Dunk and you are great guys and poker players, but I do believe Dunk also needs to think about another scenario than waiting for Pokerstars to unlock the funds. Your solution might work, but I do think Dunk needs to step up to the plate too and take his responsibility in this financially.

I do hope things get solved before that though. And as said, no hard feelings from my side anyway.

Oh and Aqua, my wife said there was something fishy about you offering her to bunk with you while I and my 23 kids stay on the boat. Oh crap! I get it now! ;-)

Good luck to both of you!

TY MEZZ FOR YOUR RESPONSE.

JOKAASTAR..

NO—U GOT IT WRONG..

IF YOU INVEST 50$ AND I MAKE A +ROI ON EVENT OF SAY 100%.. YOU WOULD GET BACK YOUR $50 + $50 THAT YOU WON + 50% OF THE 50$ THAT WON.SO THAT WOULD BEAN EXTRA $25 TOWARDS WHATS OWED TO YOU.

I,LL GIVE BACK 50% OF YOUR +ROI ON THE INVESTED EVENTS.

THAT WAY I,M GIVING BACK $ FROM MY WINNINGS.

AND THE 50% ON +ROI WINNINGS IS ONLY FOR $ OWED…TO DO IT OTHERWISE WOULD BE A LIL INSANE.

AS I,VE ASKED A FEW TIMES….HELP ME FIND AN ACCEPTIBLE/ REASONABLE SOLUTION.

**DUNK SHOULD BE THE ONE ASKING THIS QUESTION BUT FOR SOME REASON HE IS BEING VERY QUIET ON THE WHOLE THING.

.

Aqua,

The only issue I have with you solution is that I’m broke at the moment. I have plans to invest $200ish on the sunday 10millie and will be playing it myself. I don’t even have the bankroll for that even, but will be depositing to make it happen. I surely do not have the funds to invest anything significant in you, especially considering the fact that I may invest $100, lose it and then I am out the $100 + the $170 I am owed from the Aqua/dunk event.

I liked your 4k Bankroll idea better to be honest.

THE 4K BR EVENT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE FUNDED BY THE OWED BUYERS THO.

AND I UNDERSTAND SOME MAY NOT HAVE MUCH $ TO INVEST IN MY SUGGESTION..

SO——GIMME MORE SUGGESTIONS.

I,M NOT GOIN INTO THE HOLE ANYMORE THAN I AM NOW UNLESS BUYERS ARE PROACTIVE IN HELPING ME DO SOMETHING THAT GETS THEIR $ BACK.

How about offering people owed shares at a discounted price like ~100% p/v. For example, you are selling your “Sunday Calm seas” combo at 131% p/v and $7.50 a share. If you were to offer this combo at 100% p/v it would be $5.72/share. So lets just say you sell to people owed at $5.75 a share, you can subtract $1.75 from the debt for every share sold.

For this to work though, you would have to treat everything as if we paid the full price for stackback purposes which means you would lose $1.75/share on an exactly break even event. In cases like this you can just pay back the discounted price but then no money is subtracted off the debt.

Personally I think this is fair to both sides and is preferable, at least to me, than your suggestion. What do you think? Maybe give people the option between those 2 suggestions?

HMM—- ISN,T THAT THE SAME AS ME JUST PAYIMNG EVERYONE OUT FROM MY ACCOUNT.

Well your not actually losing money because as with your idea the expectation is that Dunk reimburses you. Also you are not actually losing money, you are just selling an event at low p/v.

Anyway, it’s just an idea. If you don’t like it then that’s fine. I am just trying to think of something that will minimize my additional investment that i need to put in to get my money back. I’m not trying to be difficult, I just really don’t have much money to invest right now.

To be honest, solutions that involve Aqua’s events show what a great guy he is, but come on, give him a break too. It is not his fault and his account that has been frozen, but Dunk’s. Sure, the event was set up by Aqua, but both him and Dunk are well respected players and CMU members. And from what I see and read is that Aqua is the one offering solutions and has paid back investors, while Dunk only reports every once in a while. I know, if there is no news, there is no news, but in my honest opinion it is not fair to let Aqua be the frontman where it concerns solutions.

For the record, Aqua could have also chosen to not pay back the 1800 dollar to investors or try to find creative solutions, because he has around 4500 dollar stuck in this whole shitty situation too.

I don’t want to stir things up, but in my opinion it is Dunk who should be here offering solutions on how to pay back investors and that includes Aqua. I can understand that he is sick of this and wants to wait till there is clarity from PS, but his view on how to solve this íf the money is gone, would be greatly appreciated.

As said before, I don’t mind waiting and understand that people have more money stuck in this than me, but let’s not all look at Aqua on how to solve this.

Just my two (and a half) cents.

I completely agree with you Mezz. Aqua has shown here why he is one of the most respected and trusted players here at CMU. I hope it doesn’t look like I am trying to give him a hard time because that is really not my intention.

Anyway, I am confident we will all find a solution to this. It may take some time but I am willing to be patient.

Thanks for our updates and efforts in finding a solution Aqua.

i think im ok with w8ing and hopeing for my owed $ from dunk, thx aqua anyway…not in the mood for more staking atm

same for me – i will (have to) wait for dunk to settle this. should the outcome be that funds will be frozen, i might have to reconsider, but would also expect dunk to offer a solution

thanks a lot aqua for trying to clean this mess up, much appreciated

HAVE NOT HEARD FROM DUNK IN 8 DAYS …. NO PM OR INSTANT MESSENGER.

ElizaJane10 (3 hours ago – 02 Dec 2011 18:06 UTC)

Just emailed PS and said (in short) “Ok, it is december, did DOJ give a ruling on cases like mine?”

The email response I got was:

Thank you for contacting us.

We understand that this has been a long process, but unfortunately, the final decision regarding these kinds of situations is not under our control. The monitor appointed by the US Department of Justice has not provided us with updates yet, and at this time we cannot confirm what the course of action will be.

We expect to be able to provide you with more information shortly. We apologize for the inconveniences caused by this situation and we appreciate your patience.

I guess I will keep bugging them once a week if I dont hear anything in betwee

Dont feel like posting often and large pieces of text, so: Im with luckbox1608 on this one.

“same for me – i will (have to) wait for dunk to settle this. should the outcome be that funds will be frozen, i might have to reconsider, but would also expect dunk to offer a solution

thanks a lot aqua for trying to clean this mess up, much appreciated"

DON,T FORGET GUYS—-I,M STILL GONNA PLAY THE 10 MILL PS SPECIAL FOR YOU THAT ARE OWED.

IF I HIT IN THIS I WILL CLEAR UP THE DEBTS OWED

hi all

as everybody, i know it s not aqua fault. and it looks like he s the only one to trying to find an acceptable solution for him and us. sorry dunk, but if i was in your case, i still made a bank transfer to aqua to allow him to pay all the buyers…

more of that, i really doubt about a good issue PS in this case. what will be happen if they decide to keep our money? what will you do for us?

@chris: your solution sounds good, but i have a question. how long will it take for everybody get their money back? (in my case, dunk owes me 966$)
ofc i could buy more shares as usual. but that means if you run bad, i will loose more as usual and don t recover any $$ from dunk.

i repeat i know you re not the responsible of this situation and i want to thank you for trying to fix it like you do.

patrick.

WELL.. LETS NOT GET AHEAD OF THINGS TOO FAR..ALTHOUGH I FEEL FOR YOUR FRUSTRATION.

WELL.. LETS NOT GET AHEAD OF THINGS TOO FAR..ALTHOUGH I FEEL FOR YOUR FRUSTRATION.1. 1ST LETS TRY THE 10 MILL PS SPECIAL—MAYBE THAT WILL WORK

WELL.. LETS NOT GET AHEAD OF THINGS TOO FAR..ALTHOUGH I FEEL FOR YOUR FRUSTRATION.1. 1ST LETS TRY THE 10 MILL PS SPECIAL—MAYBE THAT WILL WORK2. WAIT TIL DUNK GETS A FINAL ANSWER FROM POKERSTARS.THEN WE TAKE IT FROM THERE.

WELL.. LETS NOT GET AHEAD OF THINGS TOO FAR..ALTHOUGH I FEEL FOR YOUR FRUSTRATION.1. 1ST LETS TRY THE 10 MILL PS SPECIAL—MAYBE THAT WILL WORK2. WAIT TIL DUNK GETS A FINAL ANSWER FROM POKERSTARS.THEN WE TAKE IT FROM THERE.3. GIVE ME A SOLUTION WE BOTH CAN LIVE WITH

WTF IS THAT ???

Aqua,

You have been amazing throughout this entire ordeal. I believe that your offer to play the 10M on your dime and give us our allocated shares in this event is a fantastic offer and more than enough of a make-good while we await the final resolution. I have no fear that if the money gets frozen, you and Dunk will come up with a reasonable plan of repayment.

Im with a lot of the others. Im cool just to wait it out and see what happens. Thanks again for all your efforts during this time!

Dave

Hy all,

Below is a mail that a dutch pokerplayer got who also played on stars during his stay in the US. Ofcourse they keep the winnings and only catch the winning players. It doesnt look good

“us.investigations@pokerstars.com to me
show details 7:17 PM (8 hours ago)
Dear XXXXXX,

We are pleased to advise you that we are now able to reopen your PokerStars account following direction we have received from the US Department of Justice Monitor.

Please note that your account is back to its normal status. During your unauthorised play from the US between the period of 06/15/11 and -06/19/11, you accrued winnings to the value of "$5,011.30 ", please note that this amount has been deducted from your balance. Any funds prior to your play from the US and/or any funds derived from your play outside of the US or its Territories in the interim will remain in your account.

Please be aware, that any further play from the US or US territories will result in a permanent ban of your account and the forfeiture of any funds held within it. Any attempt to circumvent this will also result in the same action. This applies regardless of your nationality or present country of residence.

PokerStars Security Team"

:(

Would like to see some response from Dunk – situation should be the same for all players affected by this ruling of the DOJ

Ruling might not be the same for Dunk. Dunk is an American who moved to continue playing. PS/DOJ might feel that he should have known he could not play within in the US whereas a Dutchman might be given the benefit of the doubt.

If the above does come to fruition with Dunk however, it is not the end of the world. He will owe us all some money, but if he regains the ability to play on PS he will just have to play on his own dime to pay us back. The DOJ cant make him a non-winning player! Dunk is a good guy, patience is all we need :-)

Dave

dont get me wrong.

I have bought shares in Dunk for 3 years and he is one of the nicest people here.
I came across this info and wanted to share because it is almost an exact copy of the situation we are in here.

I heard more players who played during the wsop and used a VPN got the same treatment. Only winning players though. The losing players didnt get their money back.

Gr N

MILLY—- SO SIK WTF 42279TH

ars Game #72393213434: Tournament #551020010, $200+$15 USD Hold’em No Limit – Level VIII (150/300) – 2011/12/18 16:44:00 ET
Table ‘551020010 4754’ 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: f1xxR22 (34053 in chips)
Seat 2: Hapsiainenn (17848 in chips)
Seat 3: genabb (6941 in chips)
Seat 4: AQUA RAIDER (6392 in chips)
Seat 5: Maestro76504 (8710 in chips)
Seat 6: dominik585 (9895 in chips)
Seat 7: Tumppi82 (10516 in chips)
Seat 8: AtBatch69 (12912 in chips)
Seat 9: KramlizK (12278 in chips)
f1xxR22: posts the ante 30
Hapsiainenn: posts the ante 30
genabb: posts the ante 30
AQUA RAIDER: posts the ante 30
Maestro76504: posts the ante 30
dominik585: posts the ante 30
Tumppi82: posts the ante 30
AtBatch69: posts the ante 30
KramlizK: posts the ante 30
KramlizK: posts small blind 150
f1xxR22: posts big blind 300

• HOLE CARDS *
  Dealt to AQUA RAIDER [Ah As]
  Hapsiainenn: folds
  genabb: calls 300
  AQUA RAIDER: raises 600 to 900
  Maestro76504: folds
  dominik585: folds
  Tumppi82: folds
  AtBatch69: folds
  KramlizK: calls 750
  f1xxR22: folds
  genabb: calls 600
• FLOP * [8c Jd 9c]
  KramlizK: bets 1800
  genabb: folds
  AQUA RAIDER: raises 1800 to 3600
  KramlizK: raises 7748 to 11348 and is all-in
  AQUA RAIDER: calls 1862 and is all-in
  Uncalled bet (5886) returned to KramlizK
• TURN * [8c Jd 9c] [Tc]
• RIVER * [8c Jd 9c Tc] [2s]
• SHOW DOWN *
  KramlizK: shows [9h 9s] (three of a kind, Nines)
  AQUA RAIDER: shows [Ah As] (a pair of Aces)
  KramlizK collected 14194 from pot
  AQUA RAIDER finished the tournament in 42279th place
• SUMMARY *
  Total pot 14194 | Rake 0
  Board [8c Jd 9c Tc 2s]
  Seat 1: f1xxR22 (big blind) folded before Flop
  Seat 2: Hapsiainenn folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
  Seat 3: genabb folded on the Flop
  Seat 4: AQUA RAIDER showed [Ah As] and lost with a pair of Aces
  Seat 5: Maestro76504 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
  Seat 6: dominik585 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
  Seat 7: Tumppi82 folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
  Seat 8: AtBatch69 (button) folded before Flop (didn’t bet)
  Seat 9: KramlizK (small blind) showed [9h 9s] and won (14194) with three of a kind, Nines

UL GG ty for trying :)

TALKED TO DUNK TONITE ON I-M..

STILL NOTHING NEW FROM POKERSTARS
.

IF NOTHING NEW FROM THEM ….ME AND DUNK ARE WORK OUT A DEAL
HE WILL BE PLAYING ON A POKERSITE AND I WILL PROLLY BACK HIM IN A MAKE-UP DEAL

HE AGREED THGAT HIS PROFITS WILL GO BACK TO PAYING BUYERS OFF.

THATS ALL OF HIS PROFIT ..NOT SOME.

SO WAIT AND SEE A LIL WHILE LONGER

A DEAL HAS BEEN STRUCK WITH DUNK AND HE WILL START ON WEDNESDAY

ALL HIS PROFIT WILL BE FUNNELLED THREW ME TO YOU GUYS

IF YOU REQUIRE ANY MORE DETAILS PLEASE PM ME

well done guys.

hope we can welcome a BR event again in the near future

gr N

link for the dunk make up event

http://www.chipmeup.com/event/110073/elizajane1...

Very good guys thx :-)

good news, gl!

HEY GUYS

DUNKS POKERSTARS ACCOUNT WAS VARIFIED AND WAS OPENED BACK UP

HOWEVER, JUST AS NIGHTBREED HAD POSTED ABOVE —THE SAME HAAPPENED TO DUNK
HE WAS PENALIZED THAT WHOLE DAYS WINNNINGS.

LEFT HIM WITH A LIL OVER 1K IN ACCOUNT.

I TOLD HIM TO PLAY IT ..AS 1K IS NOT GINNA FIX THE PROBLEM AND I,M NOT GONNA BACK HIM ON POKERSTARS—ONLY PARTY POKER.

HE WILL XFER TO ME ALL $ AT THE END OF EACH DAY HE PLAYS THAT IS OVER $1500

I WILL THEN FORWARD IT TO ALL OWED BUYERS

I WILL TAKE MY OWED $ LAST AFTER ALL BUYERS ARE PAYED BACK

ALSO—HE IS STILL CONTINUING ON WITH THE PARTY POKER DEAL.

HE IS COMMITTED TO PAYING EVERYONE BACK.

SO NOW WE GPT 2X THE CHANCE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN

I consider this good news and hope for a nice upswing for Dunk.
Good he is back.

Gr N

Good news, sick for the roll.
GL Dunk

good news :)

What happend to Dunk’s PP event?

THE PP EVENT IS STILL RUNNING.

AND AM BACKING HIM IN SOME SMALLER MTTS ON POKERSTARS AS WELL.

HOWEVER— I,M STARTING TO GET LOW ON STAKING $ ATM.

IF SOMEONE IS WILLING TO JOIN ME IN THE MAKE-UP EVENT FOR DUNK IT WOULD BE MUCHLY APPRECIATED.

COULD MAKE A NEW EVENT —BE 100% MAKE-UP..SAME CONDITIONS APPLY AS STATED ABOVE.

IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE THIS RIDE WITH ME ..SEND ME A PM.

Event re-opened by AQUARAIDER

Event re-opened by AQUARAIDER

gl aqua/dunk…

Event re-opened by AQUARAIDER

Event re-opened by AQUARAIDER

closed again :( http://www.chipmeup.com/event/110073/elizajane1...